Initial analysis for EasyElement (supplemental) filter

[rick752]

Some more input needed here.

After testing the "EasyElement" element-hiding supplemental filter, I have noticed a slight slowdown in page loading at the site's entry point. This seems to affect ALL web pages equally whether they are targeted or not. What I have noticed, though, is that once a site loads it seems to navigate at a normal rate thoughout the rest of that site.

Because Wladimir cannot determine (as of this writing) how a project like this will affect the speed of Adblock Plus 0.7, I guess we are on our own to see what happens as the list grows.

The one thing that I HAVE noticed though is that the slowdown seems to stay constant even though I keep adding more and more info each day.

Comments anyone?

[nolookingca]

I have noticed a very slight slowdown, but nothing that would cause me to get rid of the filter.

[rick752]

I have noticed a very slight slowdown, but nothing that would cause me to get rid of the filter.

Me either.

Wow ... this is good stuff!

A lot of admakers are gonna be p*ssed!

[nolookingca]

Next thing you know, they'd have replaced spyware with ad-blocker-blocker-ware.

[rick752]

Next thing you know, they'd have replaced spyware with ad-blocker-blocker-ware.

[Wladimir Palant]

Next thing you know, they'd have replaced spyware with ad-blocker-blocker-ware.

They certainly will. LiveJournal has already put a ban on ad blocking software into their ToS, more will follow

[nolookingca]

LJ TOS states:

...
You agree to NOT use the Service to:
...
17. Employ tactics and/or technologies to prevent the full and complete delivery or display of advertisements on LiveJournal pages. These include, but are not limited to, the following:

1. Making journal style changes, customizations, or overrides that effectively block or substantially impair the display of advertisements on a Sponsored+ account's Content or other pages within the Service.
2. Employing and/or providing software programs, browser scripts, or other technologies that serve to block or substantially impair the display of advertisements on LiveJournal pages.
...

Hmm.... guess I won't be reading any LiveJournals any time soon. Think of it this way: this will make people move to other platforms.

EDIT: It's listed under MEMBER conduct, so the rest of us are fine. But I don't see how they could know you were blocking the ads, even if you are a member. (unless, of course, you are an idiot and you keep blogging about it on a site that specifically prohibits ad blockers)

[VF]

The reason it's only member conduct is because they can't enforce any consequences unless you're a member.

Anyway, personally, I'm not sure if I've gotten a little bit of a slowdown since I've started using the element blocking list, but I am completely sure that it's not slowing down as more and more filters are being added - And that's what really matters.

[Bad Brad]

But I don't see how they could know you were blocking the ads

It actually would manifest as a measureable but subtle change in the load on their server, corrresponding directly with the speed boost the end user would experience. But it would require a guru-level IT geek to find it. I don't think that's gonna happen...

-- Brad

[rick752]

It actually would manifest as a measureable but subtle change in the load on their server, corrresponding directly with the speed boost the end user would experience. But it would require a guru-level IT geek to find it. I don't think that's gonna happen...

-- Brad

Actually this is not true Brad. I know you are using my MAIN filter (as we call it) ... but I don't think you have discovered the 'element-hiding' filter yet.

The EasyElement filter (unlike the regular Adblock EasyList filter) is another subscription to compliment the one you are using now. It HIDES elements ... meaning that they are downloaded but not displayed on the pages. We use them to remove those ever-increasing text ads and spaces left over from my main filter.

There is a whole "hidden' area in these forums that you cannot see where a group of us all work on this stuff. If you'd like to read about the EasyElement filter or add it ... you can easily add a second, new subscription in ADP. Read here:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeoa83f/adbl ... lement.htm

[Wladimir Palant]

I wonder whether they indend to block my Lynx - ad blocking is an integral part of this browser

[rick752]

I wonder whether they indend to block my Lynx - ad blocking is an integral part of this browser

It's definitely a feature.

Does lynx show any text ads? (god I haven't heard that name in awhile)

[Wladimir Palant]

If the text ads are inserted by a script (and they usually are) - no, Lynx doesn't know JavaScript. But if they are really there in the HTML code (the kind of things we like to use element hiding on), then it will show them of course.

[Bad Brad]

Actually this is not true Brad. I know you are using my MAIN filter (as we call it)

Doesn't ABP work by intercepting & *preventing* page requests to/from ad servers, with your filter simply providing a library of cunningly crafted strings to set the trap? If those requests execute and are simply hidden, there would be very little speed boost for me since my Mac, which is substantially faster than my ISP, would be forced to wait for the link to catch up. (There would also be a lot less to differentiate ABP from run-of-the-mill ad blockers.) *Prevented* requests would in fact lighten the load for both the ad server and the end user, and could be detected by a guru at the server *if* she bothered to look for it.

For example, pages loaded from the cache on my 7200 RPM ATA60 Hard Drive open almost instantly. Ad servers don't typically draw from the cache since they want to stimulate (or irritate ) you with a constantly rotating parade.

Also, I would not see *any* difference at all in the traffic on my wireless link unless *prevention* (vs. hiding) is occuring.

Hmm... I wonder... My VzW ISP is routed through my LG vx4400 cellular phone/modem, which displays the traffic over the link as a rainbow-colored bar graph when I am online. (I'm refering to the display screen built into the phone, not a display on the Mac.) It is most certainly showing less traffic since I figured out how to use ADP with EasyList.

... but I don't think you have discovered the 'element-hiding' filter yet.

I've known about it since I first discovered ABP 0.7.0.1, but put off installing it until I had EasyList in the bag. I installed EasyElement about 8 hours ago. I also installed ABP 0.7.0.2 just minutes after you posted the announcement.

FWIW: I was originally trained to be a computer science researcher. Along the way I discovered I could make more money fixing computers for the goverment (back when people actually replaced chips instead of just throwing the boards away).

Before I retired, I was a senior tech, being groomed to become the head of the department. (I was forced to retire early due to illness.)

Among my duties was the analysis of new technology we were considering buying into, followed by preparation of training materials for everyone in the department. My supervisors almost never had to alter my documentation, as I left no stone unturned in my analysis.

I'll leave you with a truly inspirational thought:
"The most important part of analysis is anal."
-anonymous genius

-- Brad

[rick752]

@Brad:

Everthing you have stated is pretty much true EXCEPT that the EasyList blocks ... The EasyElement hides.

So when you installed the EasyList, you are indeed blocking images , scripting, iframes, etc at the source (hence your noticable increase in download speed) .. they are NOT downloaded at all.

The EasyElement (element-hiding) filter, on the other hand, only hides the elements. Elements do not come from an external source, they are part of the source code. An element in the html code HAS to be run before it can be hidden.

Both of the filters could be combined into one filter, but I prefer to keep them separated by choice. If I find a false-positive, I can easily determine whether it is an element or a regular ad-block problem simply by disabling one subscription or the other. Some people like to combine different filters also.

Hope this explains this ok.

[Bad Brad]

Elements do not come from an external source, they are part of the source code. An element in the html code HAS to be run before it can be hidden.

This is a much more concise & understandable statement. And as such this widens the gap between ABP 0.7.x and the run-of-the-mill ad blocker even further. Wladimir should be very proud of his achievement! (I'm wishing ABP 0.7.x would work with Apple's Safari browser... The filter lists would be inherently cross-platform compatible.)

Now I agree with you that this (hiding of elements) would NOT be detectable by my hypothetical guru.

However, I should note, IMHO, the previously quoted excert from the LJ ToS was probably a proscription against *both* preventing the transfer (true blocking) of requested ads AND the hiding of ads whether downloaded from a server or built into a page to begin with. Either would prevent "delivery" of the message, which is what the advertiser fears most.

Both of the filters could be combined into one filter, but I prefer to keep them separated by choice.

I believe that is a wise choice.

-- Brad

[rick752]

@ Brad:

LiveJournal's (Yahoo ripoff) ToS is a piece of crap imho. I think that my favorite part of the ToS is the part that says:

"You agree that LiveJournal shall not be responsible or liable for any loss or damage of any sort incurred as the result of ....... the presence of such advertisers on the Service."

In other words, what these azzholes are saying is ... "You can't block our ads without violating the ToS. But if our ads do a 'drive-by' spyware or adware install, we are not responsible."

???? WTF! As least Yahoo runs 'first-party' ads.

Does live journal use any adblocking detection or just that shoddy (PoS) ToS. I don't have an account with them and don't know. Does it funtion normally with Adblock engaged?

[Bad Brad]

In other words, what these azzholes are saying is ... "You can't block our ads without violating the ToS. But if our ads do a 'drive-by' spyware or adware install, we are not responsible."

As Mr. Spock would say, "Fascinating!"

Does live journal use any adblocking detection

In my experience, outfits that depend on intimidation & other crude tactics don't usually hire the "Guru-Class" employee(s) needed to do this kind of detective work.

I don't have an account with them

Nor do I; and with what I know now, never will!

Dude, I've been on this forum all day! I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

Hey, check this out: In less than 11 hours, I progressed from "New Member" to "Site Member" without resorting to bogus filler posts.

In a couple more minutes, I'm outa here...

-- Brad

[IceDogg]

Hey, check this out: In less than 11 hours, I progressed from "New Member" to "Site Member" without resorting to bogus filler posts.

In a couple more minutes, I'm outa here...

-- Brad

SPAMMER!!! LOL just kidding. Been fun reading your post, so far.

[Guest]

In other words, what these azzholes are saying is ... "You can't block our ads without violating the ToS. But if our ads do a 'drive-by' spyware or adware install, we are not responsible."

To which my reply is "Bite me. It's my computer, and I'll block any damn thing that I please. Go force-feed your crap on someone else."

[rick752]

To which my reply is "Bite me. It's my computer, and I'll block any damn thing that I please. Go force-feed your crap on someone else."

My sentiments exactly .....
... and lo', adblocking filters were born.

[Bad Brad]

Bite me. It's my computer, and I'll block any damn thing that I please. Go force-feed your crap on someone else.

Amen!