Combining EasyList and EasyElement subscriptions [opinions]

[rick752]

Now that the general whitelisting rules and "Blockable items" work the same for both adblocking and element-hiding rules, do you think it is time to do away with the EasyElement subscription and just combine both separate rulesets into a single EasyList subscription?

Wladimir has been asking me that for the upcoming ABP 1.0.1 release. It is actually not much of an issue considering that ABP recommends the 'combo' subscription of both anyway, and the EasyElement is now included with other EasyList combo-subscriptions.The Privacy subscription would still remain separate.
I see nothing wrong with that idea ..... opinions?

This would probably mess up other non-ABP adblockers that may use the EasyList .., but it is a problem that would have to be addressed by those programs and/or lists. I really don't care about those because the EasyList was created "specifically for ABP"

Because of the new ABP syntax options (which I am starting to use) in ABP's version 1.0, I will be bumping the minimum ABP version check of the EasyList and EasyPrivacy to:

Code: Select all

[Adblock Plus 1.0]

... soon.

If Wladimir implements the "$domains" option in ABP 1.0.1 (which he expects to utilize in 1.0.1), I will be bumping the minimum version again as well because I plan on using that option. This is a site-specific option that will fix a lot of things caused by sites using "ad" type verbiage that causes problems ... it essentially will be a blocking rule that would contain its own 'ignore' list. ABP is already very good ... but ABP 1.0.1 will be better than ANYTHING else out there after this.

[Wladimir Palant]

Just a note: the list of recommendations in Adblock Plus 1.0.1 will list lots of EasyList supplement subscriptions. All of those already include EasyElement, only exception being Corset.

PS: As to other ad blockers - that's really their problem. Nobody contacted me asking whether it is ok to use EasyList in their applications and what my/Rick's conditions are. I doubt anybody contacted Rick either. So we don't have consider them when we are changing things.

[Adblock Plus Fan]

opinions?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Rick please don't do it ><;;


I still plan on making that Swedish supplement list for Easylist (once I get off my lazy bum).
And here's the deal, Separate element hiding rules are easier to work with when debugging sites. Say I'm about to fix some Swedish site for my list, what do I do if Easyelement is hiding content that I was supposed to block?
Currently I can simply deactivate Easyelement -> Work on the site -> Activate Easyelement -> finetune the site with my own element hiding rules.
But if you mix everything into one list, I won't be able to analyse these sites 100%.

So until ABP gets some sort of "Disable all Element Hiding Rules" mode, please think of your supplement list maintainers, some of us would like to do the best job we possibly can

[Ares2]

It is actually not much of an issue considering that ABP recommends the 'combo' subscription of both anyway, and the EasyElement is now included with other EasyList combo-subscriptions.

So it's just a matter of time until most users have it. I think it's better to change it now instead of waiting for it to happen.

Say I'm about to fix some Swedish site for my list, what do I do if Easyelement is hiding content that I was supposed to block?

If it's an adserver or an adpath, it will stand out in the blockable items list anyway. If it's just some first party images that are already hidden, why do you want to block them then (except for some KBytes less to download, it doesn't make a difference for the user)? Just curious.

[Adblock Plus Fan]

If it's an adserver or an adpath, it will stand out in the blockable items list anyway.

Yeah, but what if I happened to be brain dead around that time and somehow miss it
I would need all the obviousness I could get.

If we have to get technical, what if the website in question uses the redirecting trick to cheat ABP and make the 3rdparty ads appear in the form of harmless/relevant 1st party content in the blockable items list?
With Element hiding rules turned off, I would be able to bust them right away, easily.

If it's just some first party images that are already hidden, why do you want to block them then (except for some KBytes less to download, it doesn't make a difference for the user)?

For my personal ad blocking rules, I always consider 1st party ads case by case.
There will always be exceptions in either directions, and I just want to make sure I can do the job in the way I feel is best.




In any case, I don't mind a merger, for example on this page:

It would probably lessen some confusion if you merged them there and reduced it to one choice only rather than 3 choices.
I'd be fine as long as you still kept a separated copy of the two lists somewhere on your http://easylist.adblockplus.org/ site

[Wladimir Palant]

Ok, what if I make an automatically generated version of EasyList with all element hiding rules removed? It wouldn't be advertised anywhere, other than in a comment in EasyList maybe.

To lessen the confusion was exactly my idea. Right now you can have four different combinations with Rick's subscriptions only, that's just too much.

[Adblock Plus Fan]

an automatically generated version of EasyList with all element hiding rules removed?

I'd be fine with this.

[rick752]

I guess i have another question about that.
What if users simply don't want/need the element-hiding rules?

[Wladimir Palant]

What would be the reasons?

(yes - you would need to update that "whitelist Google ads" topic to tell people which filters to disable but that's not a real reason)

[rick752]

People have reasons .... but I couldn't actually give any to you. But I'm sure some will come up here afterwards

Not that I really care because if you don't like the way the subscription is presented, then make your own . No one forces you to use any particular subscription

I agree that it would be nice for everything to be bundled in one subscription for the average user. This might also make it easier for supplemental authors because there are some good general hides already in the list that the author won't have to deal with.

***EDIT:

The downside is that most element hides are "site specific" English-speaking domains ... which does little for,say, a strictly German-language user.

[Ares2]

If we have to get technical, what if the website in question uses the redirecting trick to cheat ABP and make the 3rdparty ads appear in the form of harmless/relevant 1st party content in the blockable items list?

Well, if somebody wants to work around ad-blocking, he will avoid getting the ads hidden too.

[Adblock Plus Fan]

Well, if somebody wants to work around ad-blocking, he will avoid getting the ads hidden too.

And unleash the wrath of the Easylist?
Say if I got paid per view, I could redirect the ads into long and obscure addresses in the blockable items list, and make my relevant content masquerade in a similar manner, hiding the tree in the forest so to speak.
Then abusing one of the numerous general element hiding rules in easyelement to avoid the radar, this isn't impossible or unthinkable.

[rick752]

And unleash the wrath of the Easylist?

Lol
I always cross bridges only when I come to them. Plans like that can backfire on a site too.

[Ares2]

Say if I got paid per view, I could redirect the ads into long and obscure addresses in the blockable items list, and make my relevant content masquerade in a similar manner, hiding the tree in the forest so to speak.
Then abusing one of the numerous general element hiding rules in easyelement to avoid the radar, this isn't impossible or unthinkable.

If you (as a webmaster) trick the advertisers, what do I (as a filter list maintainer) care? That's not our business IMO.

you would need to update that "whitelist Google ads" topic to tell people which filters to disable but that's not a real reason

The problem is that other general hiding rules could apply to a parent element (i.e. whole column with Google ads hidden by #*(div^=leftads) ). It wouldn't be as easy any more to allow them (all).

[Adblock Plus Fan]

That's not our business IMO.

But in the end they can still be used for data mining the user. I'm not so sure if it's something that should be ignored.